Daily Show Gay Marriage Debate

[muscadine]

Bill Bennett & Jon Stewart

I don't like all of Stewart's arguments, but my favorite parts:

Stewart gets Bennett to admit "family" is the long-term basis of society, not modern marriage, and Bill goes on to volunteer that gay people are already part of families.

Stewart says, "It's a debate about whether gay people are part of the human condition, or just a random fetish."

Comments

[brokn2pieces.livejournal.com]

Good stuff!

[lady-elsinore.livejournal.com]

Awesome clip! I was so glad when the Senate failed to pass that bill. I'm so sick of all this political wankery...

Out of curiosity, which of Stewart's arguments do you take issue with?

[legolastn.livejournal.com]

I begin to get antsy when "the human condition" starts to be associated with "biological," especially when implied as something over and against "choice."

[lady-elsinore.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. I've seen that argument both ways, with some holding up the (potential) biological issue as a way to sway those who might be less averse to the issue if it's one of biology and not choice. Then I've known others concerned with the biological argument because it could be abused to the point of preventing that biological "aberration."

Frankly, choice or biology, it doesn't really matter much to me, and I can see the pros and cons of each argument. Ultimately it comes down to this being a country where one person's life isn't (supposed to be) the business of another, unless someone is preventing someone else from living her/his life and exercising his/her freedoms.

Ah, but that whole live and let live thing seems rare in these times, eh?

[legolastn.livejournal.com]

There's no doubt that the biological argument "works," at least in the present political climate. Support for civil rights for GLBs is highly correlated with belief that sexual orientation is biological/genetic, and having one or more close GLB friends or family members (and those two things are also correlated with each other).

But, at least so far, the science is not there to definitively back up the claims. In fact, most scientists seem to agree the best guess is sexual orientation stems from a combination of biological and social factors. Of course, "social factors" do not necessarily imply choice either. Race has "real" effects because of social factors, not biological ones (geneticists and anthropologists tell us), but few would assert those social factors constitute a choice. OTOH, as you say, it should bascially come down to other people not interfering in the lives of people who are not harming anyone, and so choice should not be an issue.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

"There's no doubt that the biological argument "works," at least in the present political climate. Support for civil rights for GLBs is highly correlated with belief that sexual orientation is biological/genetic"

Correlation doesn't prove causation, though, and I think there's a very definite tendency for heterosexuals who want to demonstrate their non-homophobia to feel obligated to assure everyone of their belief in a gay gene in order to do so.

[legolastn.livejournal.com]

That is true!

[lady-elsinore.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely certain it's a way to "demonstrate their non-homophobia" so much as an actual belief that there's evidence for the genetic/biological basis for homosexuality. There's been a lot of conflicting studies over the years, and media does not report adequately on scientific literature anyway. It's easy for people to latch on to information and not realize the caveats inherant in the original studies, etc, regardless of what the subject of study is--health, homosexuality, etc. I think suggesting the reason heteros support the "gay gene" theory is a tendency to demonstrate anything other than their (albeit limited) understanding of the literature is to make quite an assumption.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

I think there are certainly a lot of heterosexuals for whom that is an accurate description; I just also think that if a heterosexual who really has no particular opinion wants to be perceived as non-homophobic, that desire is likely to influence them to take a genetic standpoint.